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welcome back to "the weekend," everyone. prosecutors in donald trump trials that they could rest the case as early as next week. this after stormy daniels

testified. criminal charges don't hinge on stormy daniels testimony. this case is about concealing the hush money payment that went to her. that is how michael cohen's testimony will come into play and he is expected to take the stand on monday. joining us now are our guests who are with us. >> it's so good to see you. if someone was not watching this week, if they were not following it be right be by be, what was your big take away from this we cracked >> i think a few things. monday, stormy daniels let the headline grabber this weekend but monday was important because we saw some ploys from the trump organization to walk through some of the documentation. and how it traveled its way

through the trump organization. and then down to the white house were checks for side and came back up. that is really important because this case really does hinge on those 34 records, the receipt and the checks and the information that was allegedly falsified in order to swing the election and there will also be an election charge here that the government hopes will get the misdemeanor charges up to a felony. see the documents and what they were and being talked to i thought was significant. stormy daniels was obviously up. there were a lot of headlines around that and she was significant because she talks about what happened. karen google and there is another third catch and kill situation, they are important because of context for what happened but stormy daniels and the payment that went to her is that the heart of it. it's the one we care about

because it is one that involves these 34 documents we've been talking about that will underpin the case. >> on that point, it's not about the sex, it's not about the encounter as we are framing it. it really is about the business records ap noting that despite all the talk of what may happen in the hotel room, the case against trump does not rise and fall on whether her account is true or even believe about it as a trial but money changing hands, business transactions, and whether those payments were made to illegally influence the 2016 election. that is what this is about. that is where the prosecution is hanging his hat. all of the narrative that we seem play out including stormy daniels' testimony is going to that core point. so, why is everybody talking about this in a way that makes it about the sex?

is that a failure to understand and terms of the positioning of the cake? or is it just we like the salacious of it? >> there are two reasons. is a complicated case and i think maybe those of us in the media haven't done a good enough job of educating the public that the core facts and how the other facts relate to it. but, i have to take issue with the assessment. it may have been irrelevant in another world because there is a world in which the prosecutors could afford on this case without having to take a position on the underlying encounter that occurred. that became untenable when trump's lawyers open attacking stormy daniels and claiming she lied about it and denying that it occurred. became untenable for the prosecutors. they had to put her on at that point because it is a start of the whole story and what they did last week, they set all the circus aside and the conservative spin, what they

accomplished was two things. one, they establish that donald trump's defense now is a lie. i believe stormy daniels' account. that means donald trump is lying and is still lying. number two, more importantly, they demonstrated to the jury that todd blanche was willing to relay that my to them in his opening statement. thereby thoroughly undermining his credibility in front of them, too. that is worse than trump and worse for his position in the case than trump's credibility. trump, i am sure, and i can with a high degree of confidence put his lawyers in that position. it was a major mistake. >> susanne, how did the jury , i guess, feel and how did they respond as stormy daniels was on the thing? >> i was actually in the overflow room so i could not see her but i want to talk more about stormy daniels and her testimony because i think it

doesn't matter whether or not the jury believed her. donald trump we have learned there was one of the three hush money payment that one out to somebody who was making an allegation that did not happen and they took a lie detector test and that testimony has come up. but the fact that stormy daniels came in and said it did happen is important because if they believe her, it makes it all the more urgent in 2016 that he wanted to cover it up and i think the details of her are important to the jury because their understanding exactly what donald trump and michael cohen and the campaign were trying to cover up and what they were paying hush money payment four. what would have been the headline if that information had come out in 2016. if the national enquirer instead of catching and killing that story had caught it and run it and how damaging it would have been especially when we've heard other testimony that would have come after the access hollywood taper it would

have been devastating and i think the jury has heard some of that and there is an argument that didn't go too far? there has been debate about that stormy daniels caught the light giving too much information about the encounter? i think reasonable minds can agree on that and that issue may be brought up on appeal but overall it was important for the jury to hear the contours of it and to hear her story and decide whether they believe it or not. >> if nothing else, i think it did get under donald trump's skin because nbc is reporting that donald trump was cursing audibly in the courtroom to the point where judge merchan had to tell his lawyer, i understand your client is upset but he is cursing audibly and shaking his head visually and that is contemptuous, according to the transcript >> that is what he's doing inside the courtroom and what he is doing outside the courtroom. here are some of the things he said. what's going on with the judge is a disaster?

i am interested in i being held in this court with a corrupt judge who is totally conflicted. >> it's not stopping. i think it is quite repetitive and old by now. we've heard it over and over again. they are asking me, he supposed to be very vigorous and is coming out looking like a mess every afternoon and doing the whole blah, blah, blah. but, he will keep at it. >> but you know what that blah, blah, blah is for. it's in the court of public opinion. there's his desire to make this a pr thing. but there is also this effort that is much bigger to undermine the judiciary and if only in the minds of a fraction of americans. >> yes, i think that is a very, very important observation because i am short it is upsetting the judge, rightly, and the prosecutors, rightly. they have complaint on the record about this. again, the long-term assessment

of donald trump strategy is this is a set of crimes to plausibly if convicted and losses re-election, he could've gotten just probation. it is increasing the odds that the judge will sentence him to prison and the odds that the prosecutors will ask for prison time and the odds that the judge will send him away to prison for some period of time. it is not helpful to him to be doing this within the confines of the legal situation. what it is doing for him politically, he's hoping it takes them back to the white house. >> but the camera is not usually standing outside the courtroom. you know, that same courtroom that donald trump is in regular run-of-the-mill folks who have gotten caught up in the system or done things that are criminal and they don't have a camera they can talk to. am i making this up? >> the camera is interesting and a lot of people were wondering about that. the camera is there in the

court system puts it cases that have a public interest. they can also be used by the prosecutors if they want. donald trump just happened to be the one taking advantage of it. >> will, from that standpoint, if you want to put a camera there, further prosecutors and defense to come out and talk, then why not at least give us the audio inside the courtroom? >> i am with you. >> so much of this case could be clarified for the american people if we didn't have to get second and third hand impressions and all of that. if we could just absorb it firsthand directly and really see the man in the moment for what it is. >> i think that people don't -- we are reading -- i read the recording trend up the transcript and that is from what he actually said but i think people to a certain

extent don't necessarily believe because some of this is crazy. it just sounds so far-fetched and they have a hard time believing, did this really happen or where we putting something else on it? in reality, this is what is happening but without the audio and video from the courtroom, people are left to their own little media circles and corners of the internet where they get their news. >> i wish we could have it unfiltered and a camera in there. i am the biggest advocate of that and i think it's a real tragedy that even though i think the reporting has been excellent, anytime people can hear something first is better. >> it makes a difference. >> don't go anywhere. we want to continue the conversation because there is so much more to get to. donald trump's criminal trial and later this hour, jen psaki will join us to talk about her new book say more. you are watching "the weekend."

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her uncle's unhappy. for ev i'm sensing aned and everyunderlying issue. know. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. go next week, the prosecutions final two witnesses are expected to take a stand and the first criminal trial of a former american president. back with us, ankush khardori and susanne craig. >> we were in the break, susanne, and i was saying,

people say a lot of things about michael cohen and i don't think you should have been on a podcast or tiktok, but i have faith in michael cohen that he is going to go in there and do what needs to be done because he is the person who went to jail because of this. he has suffered immensely and i think michael call when once donald trump to have that accountability and he knows the documents are how that happens. i was making the case and ankush was looking at me like. >> i agree with you but i also think he has been doing something that was suggest that he doesn't have the best judgment. the tiktok video that he made where he had a picture of donald trump in an orange jumpsuit behind jar -- behind bars, i'm not following every beat of what michael cohen is doing in terms of what he is saying about donald trump on tiktok, but weeks ago, i did see a treat he said, i am not

going to say anything about donald trump because of all the stuff going on with the gag order. then he has been poking the bear ever since. i think there is so much at stake here. i'm just surprised he is doing it given that. i do think once monday morning comes, it's interesting that he is schedule, it looks like, the government is saying they can't wrap their case by friday which means it sounds like his examination could be tight. a few days. i think they will keep him to the four corners of the case and very much have him be a narrator for the jury through the documents. we will hear a lot about the checks, a lot about the agreement that he had with trump about the hush money payment and things like we heard this week. he would send emails over to the organization thing, i would like my payment and per my legal retainer, and we learned

that there is no legal retainer. he will talk about things like that. i hope you are right about it and i'm sure he understands the cavity, but his behavior he engages in is perplexing. >> i'm going to set up the question for you because i'm going to take the other side of the spirit i get completely what michael cohen is doing. and i approve, baby boy. i approve because is working ahead. he knows the man. everybody was testified in this trial involved in this trial, he is the one man who knows the man. he knows the buttons and he knows doing that tiktok video and saying all this stuff, when he gets in that courtroom and there is the mono a mono moment, it's going to be rich and i think there is a psychological game being played here by michael cohen to a certain degree. yet, he will do the testimony stuff, but the setup, for me,

the setup is when he said he was not going to say anything and i'm like, yeah you are because that is the relationship. >> okay. so. that may be accurate. >> i'm just talking about the manfred y'all watch michael cohen? where am i wrong on this? >> it is a terrible idea. terrible. here's why. the prosecutors, they said yesterday, have been asking him for and i'm not surprised that over i would be yelling at him, pleading at him to stop it. >> yes. >> but he has disobeyed those instructions. if you take -- >> but so has donald trump. >> the jury is going to be asked to trust cohen, not trump. your thought about what he

might've been doing and he might thought that is not helpful to him. you know, it's not even an academic question because there will be a true line that the defense will pull through here which is that michael cohen also thinks he can say and do whatever he wants. he has lied to every branch of the federal government. several months ago they determined that he purged himself -- >> but that will be his -- >> when he like to the justice department, that wasn't for donald trump, that was for him. when he lied to the irs, that wasn't for donald trump, that was for him. that will not work. i hope for his own sake that he abandoned that line. >> this is not helpful and does

not sound good for michael cohen. i am concerned for him. this is concerning. >> i think the legal beagles at the table, i think this is also a matter of public performance and i get the whole thing with the jury. how much the jury saw or heard from any of this. >> hopefully they happen. >> give me one second on this. i did print up this is not grade school fight this is a court proceeding. and it will matter next week and some of the things that michael cohen has done have been in service of donald trump, but there are other things he has done that has been tripped up he went for tax evasion and i think we will see if he continues to speak out this weekend we will see a cross where all of this will be brought up and it will print up they can say this has been

going on while this court case has been going on. i think if it was just a public dispute it's fine, but in a court case you risk serious damage to the point where the judge said to the government lawyers yesterday, ask him for me to shut up. i am paraphrasing but that is what he said. >> at the end of the day, donald trump hired michael cohen. if they want to make him a villain who cannot be trusted across, print up >> i still think he can be a really good witness. he knows the narrative. the documents are great but they don't go to intent and the witnesses will take us to the table on intent for the jury to come back with a verdict of guilty. we don't know where it will go because witnesses are very important. the documents to a lot of work, but we still need intent. >> so, okay. all right. we will just leave the michael cohen piece right there because

this is got to go. thank you so much. >> nice to see you. come back. >> stick around. next, we will have to talk about it and go there and talk about the bombshell reporting of rfk junior. and they did worm he says doctor found in his brain. you are watching "the weekend" on msnbc.

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deposition reveals other previously undisclosed health issues. susanne craig is back with us at joining us is jen psaki. she has a brand-new book out and we will talk about it in a little bit. >> susanne, maybe you can tell us about the reporting for the folks who are like, is this real? >> it is real. i found out about this through a deposition i reviewed that bobby kennedy gave as part of it to be divorce proceeding in 2012. she ultimately committed suicide but i was able to look at the deposition. it is not public. and it, because it is deposition and marriages is all about the finances, he was talking about his health conditions because of them can impact this earning potential. in the deposition he talked about a few health conditions

that when i first read it i was like, whoa. glowworm being the main one. it was incredible to read. he went in 2010 to doctors and was having, he described it as severe long and short-term memory loss. when i interviewed him he said he had memory fog. severe memory fog. he could not retrieve words and he goes to the doctor and do two things. first of all, he has his blood tested for mercury poisoning. i will get to that in a moment because it is interesting and may have been the cause of the memory loss. the second thing, the friend says you may get a brain scan because you may have a brain tumor. his uncle died of brain cancer. he gets a scan and immediately the top surgeons look at it because he has access to them because ted kennedy had just

gone through this. it seems several of them said he thought he had a brain tumor and he should immediately have brain surgery. he was actually scheduled for surgery at duke university by the same surgeon that operated on his uncle. another doctor came forward from new york presbyterian and said, hang on. i don't think this is a brain tumor. i think you have a dead parasite in your head. it's a tapering, alarmed by other tapeworm, and it turns out the spot on his brain never grew and that is what it is. i can keep going. that's how we figured out he had a worm in his head. what was interesting is they started quoting some neurosurgeons and they thought it was real but they said, the long and short-term memory loss does not add up. memory, short and long-term memory are controlled by

different parts of the brain. we have to have more than one worm to have the symptoms he was having. normally when you have a worm in your brain, and it is alive, your brain can cope but when the worm starts to die in the brain, it causes inflammation and you do no one inflammation in the brain. how they normally find out you have a worm in your brain is this are to die and causes seizures and most people who show up at the hospital in the u.s. with this condition are having seizures and i find out there was a worm larva in their brain. the other thing bobby kennedy did around this time is, i mentioned previously, he had his mercury levels tested and it turns out the mercury levels in his blood were 10 times what the epa would like to see. he had mercury poisoning in his blood and he told me it was because he was eating a diet rich in fish that was to not from sushi and perch and the

diet spike the mercury levels and when you have that elevated mercury levels in your system, that can cause the sort of memory loss that he was seeing. in so, jen, how is the family? >> well, while you were watching susanne about this write >> i am concerned. he wants to be president. >> this is 2024, everyone so here we are. but also there was a poll this week and they were talking about wisconsin or if he is in the race and on a ballot in wisconsin, he gets 12% of the vote. polls are imperfect and are testing a moment in time, but dad worms, conspiracy theories, all the things aside, >> >> but also, my larger point is

this man is a real threat and, yes, i understand there is polling that suggests he would only hurt donald trump, but i don't buy that. >> the internal numbers, that is why you see them taking him down. take him off of fox. the republican numbers are showing that he is eating into trump more than he is eating into biden. they have been really good at selling him to their base and at the base loves them. do more of that. >> susanne craig, worm enthusiast, journalist, and investigative reporter, thank you. jen, don't go anywhere. next, were going to dig into more worms and the other candidates in the race. we will talk about this third-

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look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge! we're just regular people donating. yeah. and i think it's cool to be able to make a difference in someone's lives in a way that is meaningful. donald trump, a rare day off from his criminal trial so he hosted a dinner in florida for people who purchase his digital playing cards. this despite his constant complaining that his trial keeps him off the campaign trail meanwhile, president biden of the day in wisconsin where he unveiled an investment by microsoft to build a new artificial intelligence data center that is expected to create 2000 jobs along with 2300 construction jobs in the place that donald trump promised to bring back fox.

jen psaki joins us now. >> there's one detail from the nft story, a lot of our love, $10,000. some people could pay lower amount, but if you were willing to pay $10,000, you could get a piece of the suit and the tie. so there's that. but this contrast is so important. this question i often get asked is, like, why can't the biden team victory? there are a lot of reasons for that including the fact that his opponent is sitting in a courthouse and it is an important story to cover, but i think the wisconsin event is a good model. as you know, symone, very well, it's like local press getting a good story there. that has edge to it and this has edge because he is calling his opponent out and it's about an issue people care about. the economy and something that

your opponent didn't promise on. so, is it going to be the new york times, maybe not because someone has dad worms in their brains and the other one is sitting in a courtroom. this is how this is a good model of what to do during the campaign. >> and the local coverage was very strong and frankly people are looking at the local coverage. they trust it more. >> look, it's campaigning 101. this is why i emphasize a lot to folks when we get into the political cycles. please stop watching and fondling national polling. >> i thought you were going to tell them not to watch us fit >> i would never say that. it distorts the lens. it is not where the meat is on the ground being round up.

it's that sort of local flavor because that will bubble up international polling in september and october. not so much now because folks are getting ready for graduations and makeup parties and they got going on. they are getting ready to go to the beach. september, labor day, everybody gets into their groove and they been fed a steady diet of the local news. and they are reading and watching the local news channel. that comes back in play. it's a smart strategy and to put that in place. we were talking in the last -- this whole effort to do the counterprogramming. talk a little bit from your experience, both if you can, inside the white house of making that political move when you have the forces inside the white house going, we still must be presidential.

you guys are going, no, we need a candidate. >> is so true. first of all, what does presidential mean? reaching the american public. when i was working for obama, they got pearl clutching about him doing interviews with outlets that they didn't consider part of the national media. that trip of those were effective ways of reaching the broader public, but what works about this and symone, we have experienced a lot of this together. you can't go out as president and give a speech or cut everything, the world will hear you, especially during a campaign. it needs to contrast and have edge. and that is why if joe biden were to go to florida and do an event about climate, that is edgy. do you know why? are they think they can win florida? where is ron desantis?

is he going to show up? at the same time you still get your climate message out. you have to have edge or it's hard to break through. >> i think edge and where is the hook? what is happening in the world that you can hook it to and i think wednesday was a good example. donald trump had an opportunity to be on the campaign trail and he chose to have a dinner and joe biden decided to campaign. >> and he said, i can't campaign. they are not letting me. he was meeting with people he wants to give pieces of the suit and the week before he was playing golf. >> is see where with the scissors cutting? >> they were offering $1 million to come up on stage a week ago. >> how big is this it? or maybe there is not a lot of demand. >> he's a big boy. you know. >> it's interesting and different to me about the cycle is you rarely have an opponent

his -- who is feeding you. knowing donald trump and his position on reproductive rights and abortion is untenable politically on the trail. reporter said there are ads running that said you would support certain state monitoring a woman's pregnancy and he said, while that will be up to the states again. so far a lot of states are coming in tripped up the syntax doesn't even make any sense. >> it's word salad. >> you are at the point where you pivot on the issue that could be the nail in the coffin of your campaign. he is not doing that. >> no, he's not. on the abortion rights issue, i thought, i think, that think it's up to the states would be an easy political winner and a lot thought that. i don't know what you think i'm not but beyond that, i know he is ready to talk. beyond that, it's not because

that's what happened the day after he said it should be up to the states? arizona happen and idaho is happening. there are a bunch of states where they are putting in place data restrictions. the other thing and i mentioned climate, there's a story about how trump basically said if you raise money and give me money to the oil companies. >> i will rollback all love biden's stuff. so give me the cash. >> there are things like that where he's giving them that. they can have edge and issues that people care about. >> i know you encourage us to say more, but that does not pertain to you today. >> am going to take a break. i'll be back. >> were going to talk about her brand-new book "say more." it just hits shelves this week and it is the perfect mother's day gift. stay with us.

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and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light- headedness can come and go. but if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. if you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. holding off on seeing a doctor won't change whether or not you have afib. but if you do, making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. contact a doctor and learn more at notimetowait.com is such a polarizing political climate. communication, especially with people different points of view, might seem harder than ever but in jen psaki's new book "say more," we are giving lesson on being an effective communicator.

she rides, quote, difficult conversations are best approached ted on, speaking across different police requires grace, tact and a willingness to give up the fantasy of winning in favor of the realistic goal of understanding. jen psaki is with us. i tried to give it an important read because i thought it was important and something i have stress in my political and business career. that being able to communicate is one thing. being able to listen so that you can understand is something very different. you bring that together in your book. >> thank you for that. we all know that listening, as parents and people will interviewing people, is under valued as part of being an effective communicator. if you are not listening, you are not able to engage and invite someone to hear more of what you have to say.

maybe you convince them or just cracked the door open and i think that is part of the message i am trying to get across. >> i am going to buy some copies for people who need to improve their skills in listening. there's always this moment in the life of a mother when you think you have figured it out. then, it sideswiped you and there's a story you tell where at work you are dealing with the all-out from the afghanistan withdrawal and it is, of course, happening on the same day as the kindergarten opera house that you said you would attend. what do you do? >> it was the worst day. it was the worst day, of course, of the biden administration when i was there. whenever you lose men and women serving your country it is the worst day and you could feel that in the room and the building. it was also my daughter's kindergarten open house and this is the thing that is tricky. balance is not the right word. i almost hate that word as any

parent, you're trying to figure out how to be present and that's another key part of communicating. ice the morning in the situation room talking about how we would respond and what people would do. i had to do a briefing letter that day and i did not tell anybody i was leaving. not because i was trying to sneak out but because it felt smaller than what was happening in the building. then when i got to my daughter's open house, i wanted to be present for her. we spent an hour at her kindergarten and her teacher said to me, how are you here right now? that really touched me in the moment. i made it back in time to be there to help with the remarks. i could not prep my own briefing, but it is a moment for me that exemplifies this tricky balance, again, not the right word, but the thing so

many parents go through. >> can i take that to another level? is that what you did? something that a mom would have to do or does versus a dad in that position? i think that is always an interesting dynamic in the conversation about parenting and professionals. >> i am so proud of you. this is such an important point. thank you for saying that. >> i remember as a dad and my suns going through different things and a lot of it had to do with how my mom raised me to be present. but that is not always the case. i appreciate the story because i think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that you realize i have two responsibilities here and my goal is to meet both.

>> yes, and sometimes it is not possible. there is a physicality of being a mother. as parents you have emotional connections. but i also tell the story in the book about being almost six months pregnant and the white house chief of staff calling me about going back to be the white house communications director. i thought, clearly he doesn't know i am pregnant. i -- he would tell me, good luck with life after he found out but i worried about the judgment i would have on me. i think this is something that mothers and women deal with in a different way. they are carrying the baby so you can see and i worry that mothers would judge me for going back and be the white house to medications director in that moment. it took bill burton telling me this is part of your daughter story, too. which is true. i think we all experienced this. part of her story is that i was

the white house communications director and press secretary in she met the president she has met two present. it's also important to be present at the kindergarten opera house but you can also value what you are doing. >> i just love that there are so many great stories in the book and i think esterline, first, go get the book. we have them at the table. the through line is you talk about navigating and communications but the backdrop is navigating through this all with relationships and motherhood. in terms of communicating, there's a story in the book that you're telling your daughter you're going back to work at the white house and you thought it would be a great moment to talk about patriotism the children will humble you. >> they will. you know. your stepson is about the same age. when i took that my daughter

was about 5 at the time. i'd spoken with the president and serving on the job and i thought i was using it to teacher about service and patriotism. i took her to get frozen yogurt and she had one of those and i basically said to her, you know that mcmahon joe biden who won the election? he asked me to come help him which is a thing to say about an incoming president. that means sacrifice and i will be leaving you and you are sacrificing for the country. does that make sense? she was like, nope. i continue the story and it took her coming to the white house experiencing the turkey pardoning and tasting sprite

for the first time and meeting the president, but it took that experience to show her that she liked my job. an experience of how you make people feel is a big part of communication. >> it makes a difference. >> real quick. on the communication. it reminded me of something my mother told me when i was 14. she said, boy, you need to just shut up and listen. and that is the heart. >> the title of your book. i love that he >> such a good story especially in advance of mother's day. the book is out now and it is called "say more." you can watch "inside with jen psaki" and right here on msnbc and streaming on peacock. thank you and congratulations.

>> thank you, guys. this was so fun. i love hanging out with you guys in the morning. >> they are like, go to commercial. in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next. (vo) achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon.